Re: personal invective

["Fiona Webster" <fi>]

sonic5 wrote: 
> I sent the following to Fiona privately, cause I thought this whole 
> thang was most appropriate to private discussion and comment,
> but given the public responses, I'm reposting it here:
[...]
> So why did you post this publicly? 

Because I was angry.  Because I wanted the other members of 
babel-list to know I was angry.  I'm not sure *why* I did, but I did.

On second thought, I do know why I posted it publicly.  Because
I would like Michael, as listowner, to speak out against personal 
invective on the list.  

I realize what I said could be misinterpreted, but I didn't meant 
that Ed or anyone should be kicked off--ever!  The mess we had in 
August '96 was enough to convince me that that's the wrong way to go. 

But I would prefer it (just my humble opinion!) if there were some 
sort of consensus that personal invective is a bad thing.  Sure, 
people get mad and use nasty language in a rash moment.  But Ed has 
been using personal invective for a long time, consistently.

> Censorship can be a dangerous thang. Exactly who does get to be the
> arbiter of what can be said? And who's to say you posts wouldn't be
> the next ones to be excised. 

Agreed.  I do not want censorship.  *Censure*, on the other hand, 
might be warranted in a case like this.

> I think Michael is the ideal list 
> owner, not indifferent, maybe not even simply  tolerant, but   smart
> enough to let listmembers work things out on their own. Smart enough
> to know it's not his place to judge who should and shouldn't be
> allowed to post.

I think he's a very good listowner, too.  I was just expressing my
opinion, in the mildest way I could devise, that I wished that he, 
*as* listowner, would speak out against personal invective on the 
list.

> >       "If we had no faults of our own, we should not take so much 
> >        pleasure in noticing those in others."
> >                             --La Rochefoucauld, 1768
> > 
> precisely. 

Yup.  That's why I put it in my posting.  :-)


	 --full of faults, especially the one about
                       speaking too often and too forcefully,

			  Fiona



Why not take it up with Ed
> privately? Certainly you are entitled to be pissed by anything any one
> writes and you're entitled to say so, but to claim someone doesn't
> have the "right" to say it? Seems a bit of a stretch.  Last time I
> checked there weren't any laws against using personal invective in
> internet postings - public or private (you're really not saying that
> one can't even use such a word in private email are you? that sounds a
> bit like an invasion of the thought police).
> 
> Ed himself can be a schmuck, I'm not defending his flame baiting. But
> I will defend his "right" to post that very same flame bait. (Besides,
> Fiona, you oughta be able to recognize his taunts, and know that any
> reply is only going to engage him  and other listmembers in an
> on-going and useless war of words.) 
> 
> Censorship can be a dangerous thang. Exactly who does get to be 
> the arbiter of what can be said? And who's to say you posts wouldn't
> be the next ones to be excised. 
> 
> Interesting that babel-list has  just had a discussion re: the 
> word nigger - how it may or may not be offensive, but that Patti
> certainly has the "right" to use it.  
> 
> > I'm serious.  I recognize the value of having, as we do in Michael
> > Berch, a very tolerant and laissez-faire listowner, but personal
> > invective of this nature is too much.  
> > 
> 
> I think Michael is the ideal list 
> owner, not indifferent, maybe not even simply  tolerant, but   
> smart enough to let listmembers work things out on their own. Smart
> enough to know it's not his place to judge who should and shouldn't be
> allowed to post.
> 
> > 
> > 
> >       "If we had no faults of our own, we should not take so much 
> >        pleasure in noticing those in others."
> >                             --La Rochefoucauld, 1768
> > 
> precisely. 
> 
> 
> sonic5
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> just a few thoughts from someone who finds lots of stuff
> distasteful, but who takes the personal responsibility to change
> the channel...
> 
> sonic5
> 
>