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Re: Facts and footnotes...Part 1
- To: babel-list
- Subject: Re: Facts and footnotes...Part 1
- From: "j.BOLt SThAR eNYCh" <eltyger>
- Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:28:08 -0500 (EST)
- Reply-To: babel-list
- Sender: owner-babel-list
0036 EST // Sat 31 Jan 98 // BklnNYC
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>From: "Ed Ezergailis" <moriarty>
>To: <babel-list>
>Subject: Facts and footnotes for the lecturer
(much Patti content)
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:13:11 -0500
>...
>(many detailed Patti quotes found below)
** Some anyway.
>Re:
>> ** This Might've happened in '75 - but never later.
>
>You're the definitive word are you? My source on this is
>Jayne County (who was still Wayne at the time he told me about
>this stuff).
** Musta been a few Years ago.
Jayne's got a Great book out now:
*Man Enough to be a Woman*
(C)1995 Jayne County (with Rupert Smith)
pb, Serpent's Tail, 180 Varick Street,
New York NY 10014
in which She says a few things about Patti in those
Early days.
>Tina Weymouth also talked about it in a phone interview.
** Yeah, Tina is Great to talk to.
Does Great Bass, and Vocals too!
>The exact year(s) is not vital to the discussion.
** Actually, it is - 'cause things became very hectic
after 1975.
>The point is, the Ramones, Patti, Talking Heads, Television,
>and so on, were all in the audience for each other. Oh but I
>forgot, YOU were there too weren't you?
** Yep. From Dec '75 'til Now.
>> >Around 1977 or so, Patti used to make a point of mentioning
>> >how everyone should go listen to the Ramones because they
>> >were the greatest rock and roll band on the planet. Check
>> >out some old interviews if you don't believe me.
>>
>> ** I don't. It would be great if You could come up with
>> a Specific Reference. Be that as it may; Patti
>> *Certainly* did Speak up for other bands, so it
>> could well have happened. Two Specific Groups that I
>> Witnessed her Reference from Stage were Television
>> and the Clash.
>
>Don't have the time or energy to try to dig these up. You do
>it.
** No mr. ed, You're making the *Claim*. I understand
that You're too slothful to look anything up, but Not
too slothful to prattle on (at tedious length) off
top of yer head about what you "think". Alas.
>Might make that website a little less ahistorical.
http://www.oceanstar.com/patti/
See under "interviews" for the *Complete* text of
Patti's Interview with Nick Tosches, which appeared
in *Penthouse*, Apr 76.
> ...Ever heard of a 'zine by the way or a fanzine? The real
>history of the counterculture is found therein.
** Sure mr.ed. I have most of them (not necessarily on
babelogue yet). Which One(s) do ya fancy?
I would agree that *Some of* the "history of...".
>> >The Ramones, like Patti, helped kill the bullshit of the
>> >60s and change the face of music forever...
>>
>> ** As I recall it was the bullshit of the early-mid 70s
>> that motivated Patti to take the Stage.
>
>Which was the outgrowth of the 60s. Its a generational thing
>really. The decades don't synch up exactly. You're nitpicking
>words while ignoring the ideas. Is the bullshit you refer to
>any different from the one I'm referring to?
** Apparently. I refer to "the bullshit of the
early-mid 70s" - which I *Think* is that to which
Patti refers.
>> Aside from that...The Ramones were the First "Punk"
>> Group.
>
>Rubbish. Ever heard of an album entitled "Nuggets" compiled
>by some guy named Lenny?
** You bet, mr.ed. Had a lot of 60s groups on it...
Groups which *Were* killed (arguably) by the sludge
of the early-mid 70s.
>Punk emerges into popular culture in the 70s, but it was
>around long before that. But its all a question of definitions
>isn't it. What is punk?
** Yes. Yes. Yes. Try to read:
*Please Kill Me -
The Uncensored Oral History of Punk*
Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain (C)1996
First Pub. by Grove Press, 1996
pb, by Penguin Books 1997
"This book tells it like it was.
It is the very first book to do so."
- William S. Burroughs
>To quote Lenny "we're not a punk band because we don't have a
>Farfisa organ. We don't do 3 minute singles and we don't do
>psychedelic lyrics" (Melody Maker, 1976).
** See Legs' book. Legs' came up with the name "Punk";
and was heavily under the Influence of *Nuggets*. It
seems entirely possible that He got it from Lenny
Kaye's liner notes; but it's not Proven.
It would be a Worthy Contribution mr.ed, or Anyone,
to Transcribe LK's liner notes, from the original
edition of *Nuggets*. I would love to post them on
babelogue.
I would happily do it myself (in the true tradition
of "Punk") but I don't have the Album.
In any event, the *MM* quote above seems to imply
that LK was indeed thinking of those 60s *Nuggets*
groups.
But the Ramones didn't have a Farfisa either, nor
would I consider their lyrics "psychedelic".
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END PART I
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