A Message From Tim Warren to Greg Shaw

[PETEP@xxxxxxx]

>Thanks for the words of support, Eric. I don't know who wrote that press
>release (really hope it wasn't Tim) but it's truly egregious, elitist
>crap. I don't believe there's any such thing as a $30,000 turntable to
>begin with, but given a clean record and a good studio, it's only gonna
>get so good. There will always be some surface noise dubbing from vinyl,
>which no stylus can get rid of. (It can be done on a computer with
>ProTools, at a cost of about $100 a song. I'd be more impressed if they'd
>done that, but somehow I don't picture any computer savvy at Crypt. Heck,
>they haven't even figured how to release the CAPS KEY on their
>typewriter!)
>
>The only thing that really offers improved sound is to have the master
>tape. Believe it or not, we do have master tapes for many of the Pebbles
>tracks. Remember how awful "Action Woman" was on vinyl? For the CD, we
>licensed the master from K-Tel. As for the Groupies "Hog", I have recently
>acquired the master tapes, along with 6 songs from their "lost" Atco album
>sessions (3 more remain to be found). Crypt implies their records are all
>legally licensed, but it ain't true. At best they give some free records
>and chump change to the bands, then go out and sell umpteen thousand
>copies without having to pay a cent more. And quite a few of the bands
>they list couldn't possibly be traced. They sure didn't get a license from
>the Groupies!
>
>Without a doubt, their albums are great (especially if all you ever want
>to hear is inept, drunken frat rock). But this "we're better than all you
>other losers" stuff does get a bit tiresome. Well, as I always say, "comp
>and let comp"
>
>Greg


Hi Greg - Here's some more undoubtedly hate-fuel but it is overdue to
thrust your bullshit back in your face.

>I don't know who wrote that press release (really hope it wasn't Tim) but
>it's truly egregious, elitist crap.<

No, Greg - A friend of mine wrote it - but you know that what REALLY got
the Teenage Shutdown series started was YOUR pathetic-sounding &
unnecessary "Essential Pebbles" twin-cd - Yeah, some "bonus"...

POINT: Pebbles 1/2 LPs in print now 20+ years and the notes STILL have the
very outdated "2 copies in existence of the Squires 45" crap. With your
obviously superior step into the world of computers & cyberspace, Greg, one
would think a lousy goddamned $10 snip-in of a cheap B&W film with UPDATED
notes would suffice.
But have you done so? Nope... CHEAP...
That's a SMALL point: The BIG point is: You CONTINUE to pawn off shoddy
"product" on the public.

THE ANIMOSITY FACTOR BEGAN in 1987 when I sent you a very pissed-off letter
after you "licensed" the Squires to yer pal Mike Spencer in London for his
Pebbles box set. Very cool to license what is not yours - and to step on
our toes after releasing our Squires lp in 1986 with a detailed 4-page
interview and having laid down a $3000 royalty advance to the band.

It is YOUR (& a few exploitive Italians) 1990s rehashing of material
WITHOUT the quality factor that got me & a garage fiend friend off our
asses & started the Teenage Shutdowns. The reissue world DOES NOT need more
$22 pieces of shit like that Italian "PROJECT BLUE" lp. Nor does it need
"bargain-priced" shitty-sounding "bonus discs" ala the "Essential Pebbles"
things where 3rd-gen tape dubs in are slapped together in absolutely no
cohesive manner and gems like Peter & The Wolves are dubbed off Jim
Atwood's stellar (tho lacking in sound quality) comp "Off The Wall".

>I don't believe there's any such thing as a $30,000 turntable to begin
>with,<

Yes, I DO realize that you would find such a beast hard to fathom. It SHOWS
in your releases' lack of quality that you make little effort to advance.
The turntable referred to is 1 of 8 models manufactured - 1 is at Abbey
Road studios in London, 3 are at mastering labs in Germany - including the
studio where we are spending $1900 per LP/CD to get the ace sound. (Want
more proof that there ARE such wonders in existence? Ask Lou Silvani at
Times Square about his $40,000 turntable - but poor Louie flipped when I
told him of the MONO stylus at the Hamburg studio...)

What do YOU spend on mastering? I'd say you've probably got a DAT to dub
the 3rd-generation cassettes that Ron Simpson & co send you (after boning
other collectors into dubbing their rare 45s for a "private trade", not
knowing that they'd be later hearing their 45 in atrocious sound onna
future Pebbles/etc.). Hmmm... You turn on yer mac and run the DAT thru the
90s "home-studio"ism of the lame Sonic Solutions program, tweak a nob here
& there and voila! A $50 mastering job....
This "hands-on" "cool" "D.I.Y"ism just doesn't cut it in the hands of those
uncapable. I seem to recall a certain bone-up regarding Highs In The
Mid-60s Vol 1, where you & Lee mastered the limp ballad FLIP side of "See
If I Care" by Ken & The 4th Dimension onto this lp.
You might be computer-savvy - god bless you and your 14-yr-old's attempts
at Photoshop abuse - but have you ever heard of 1)EARS? and 2)
TEST-pressings? (The Ken & 4th D fuckup proves the attention detail you
give to garage music.)

Have YOU had to deal with the fucking expense of all the returns of Highs
In The Mid 60s Volume 5, where your ever-present cheapness had the actual
lp's inside turn out to be the "Chocolate Soup For Diabetics Vol 1" lp?
Shall I bill YOU for the copies our Euro mailorder customers returned
to us at a POSTAL cost of 12 DM ($6.70 to $8) on each return???   Once
again: CHEAP. (A $55 test pressing AND a good LISTEN to the goods you pump
out would have cured this boner.)


>but given a clean record and a good studio, it's only gonna get so
>good. There will always be some surface noise dubbing from vinyl, which no
>stylus can get rid of. (It can be done on a computer with ProTools, at a
>cost of about $100 a song. I'd be more impressed if they'd done that, but
>somehow I don't picture any computer savvy at Crypt. Heck, they haven't
>even figured how to release the CAPS KEY on their typewriter!)

Yeah, we're morons and yer a genius... Tho I'd say a REAL moron is one that
ships defective product (Highs Mid 60s 5, etc) out without any quality
control.
Keep on with yer oh-so-computer-savvy snipes - You haven't even heard
of CEDAR - so I'd just hafta wonder HOW hep you really are... But as you
can't purchase a CEDAR machine as a $500 mac program I guess you'll remain
in the dark.. We ain't rich either but as we DON'T make claims of being
sound wizards I gladly put the work into THE HANDS OF THOSE CAPABLE and
drop the extra $$$ on using the Hamburg studio guy and his turntable and
CEDAR machine than be a cheap fucking deliverer of half-assed goods like
you.

>
>The only thing that really offers improved sound is to have the master
>tape. Believe it or not, we do have master tapes for many of the Pebbles
>tracks.<

Yack... yack... yack...  NAME THEM.
I tracked down over 350 garage bands and only 3 groups actually had their
reel-to-reel masters: LITTLE WILLIE & THE ADOLESCENTS of "Get Out Of My
Life", The OTHER HALF of "Girl With The Long Black Hair", and Rudy Wyatt of
THE WYLD. Mike Markesich has tracked down another 200-plus garage bands and
has yet to have them turn up any master tapes. Erik Lindgren at Arf Arf and
Billy & Miriam of Norton deal with the "larger" "garage labels" (by
"large", we're talking releases of 10 or more GARAGE - or
rockabilly/instro/etc - releases on a label, and this was rare - there were
a few larger regional labels: IGL, Kingston, Charay, Fenton, Soma, Cha-Cha,
Studio City, etc - but not a helluva lot), and locating the label owners
makes for easier locating of master tapes IF one gets off one's ass, but I
think we can count YOU out as one who makes any effort to do so. Erik's &
Norton's efforts are noble. DON'T put yourself in their categories. Norton
& Arf-Arf are OUT ON THE ROAD working with the label owners and YOU are
not.

>Remember how awful "Action Woman" was on vinyl?<

And you VINYL folks (and those FUTURE vinyl fans for the NEXT 20 years!)
can KEEP ON REMEMBERING how awful "Action Woman" IS on the Pebbles vinyl
cos Greg'd never want to "squander" the lousy $200 it would take to re-cut
one lousy LP side onto a NEW and remastered LP mother.

>For the CD, we
>licensed the master from K-Tel. As for the Groupies "Hog", I have recently
>acquired the master tapes, along with 6 songs from their "lost" Atco album
>sessions (3 more remain to be found).

>There are those who believe
>the only right way to do it is to license the tracks first, and make sure
>everyone gets his $35, but I have preferred to make available as much of
>the best music as I can<

In the WORST quality possible.

>Crypt implies their records are all
>legally licensed, but it ain't true. At best they give some free records
>and chump change to the bands, then go out and sell umpteen thousand copies
>without having to pay a cent more. And quite a few of the bands they list
>couldn't possibly be traced. They sure didn't get a license from the
>Groupies!<


First off: "Umpteen thousands": In your old slag-off of me on yer newsgroup
you claim "I don't limit the editions on Pebbles but all the
>same, after 1000 it tends to drop off to almost nothing" so where do you
>get this "umpteen thousands" bullshit?

Second: While you sat on yer ass in Burbank I was out travelling the
midwest etc doing in-person interviews and laying checks on and getting the
bands' permission to reissue their songs. "Chump change" my ass - YOU go
out and drop $150 to $450 a pop (and sometimes advancing on a LOT of future
pressings to certain now-Christian/religious/etc bands who I felt might be
put off by the obnoxious packaging and ask me to pull their track off) on
130-plus groups BEFORE yer bullshit leaves yer lips.

"Chump change" is better than the NOTHING you usually dole out.

I could've been sitting on my ass like you, NOT paid out those monies,
and taken that $39,000 in monies paid to the groups (never mind the monies
spent on gas, phone bills, motels, car expenses, etc) and pumped out the
Teenage Shutdowns YEARS before, ala YOU and your goddamned PATHETIC &
"market"-milking umpteen-volume Pebbles/Highs In The Mid-60s garbage - but
I would've NEVER had the stomach to do so in such a shoddy manner as you.
I've often gotta wonder whether yer a fan or simply a profiteer/exploiter.

C'mon Greg: grow some balls for ONCE and post a list of the groups YOU paid.
Here's mine:
GRAVE 1: ALL bands except ONE WAY STREETS & CORDS
GRAVE 2: ALL bands except ROY JR, CHILDREN OF DARKNESS, NOVAS, BRIGANDS
GRAVE 3: ALL bands except JERRY & THE OTHERS, WILLIAM THE WILD ONE
GRAVE 4: ALL bands except RED BEARD & THE PIRATES, BOTUMLESS PIT, BUNKER
HILL, SLOTHS
GRAVE 5: ALL bands except RISING TIDES
GRAVE 6: ALL bands except ASCOTS, SHANDELS
GRAVE 7: ALL bands except PUDDIN HEADS, WORLOCKS, BENDS, TY WAGNER, HALF
PINT & THE 5ths, MIKE'S MESSENGERS.
GRAVE 8: ALL bands except GROOP, NIGHTRIDERS, CHANCELLORS, PULSATING
HEARTBEATS, JUST TOO MUCH, CINDELLS, JAMES T & WORKERS, PIECE KOR DOGS,
DARK HORSEMEN, SONICS INC, ASCENDORS, VILLAGE OUTCAST
GARAGE PUNK UNKNOWNS: Found and paid 19 of the groups. Hence the fucking
generic NAME.
plus the band payments on the SQUIRES lp, TEMPOS lp, NOMADS lp.

Not to pretend that the new TEENAGE SHUTDOWN series is legit - tho no less
"legit" than your much more extensive slew of various series - and that's
why they don't feature a Crypt logo - but then again I'm not blowing any
hot air about them being from the master tapes or having "taken care of the
groups". The Teenage Shutdowns are 1) just as "dodgy" as your comps  2)
Here to do the job RIGHT, as it's 1998 and your packaging methods are still
as crappy as they were in 1978. The Teenage Shutdowns are in a BIG way
meant as an alternative to your sad, exploitive attempts.


from an OLD Greg post a pal forwarded to me:
>Having done 100 or more comps in my time, I can say that quite a few have
>come forward, and I have always taken care of them.<

NAME THEM.


>I believe some of Tim Warren's contempt for his colleagues stems from the
>fact that he puts so much work into finding the bands, so he resents those
>who don't. That's his right. He has his own shortcomings, as do we all. A
>healthy percentage of the stuff on Pebbles is licensed, but not as much as
>on BFTG... but so what?<

NAME THEM.

>From that old Greg post once again:
>Such amounts are not worth hiring a lawyer to collect, but I don't know
>many compilers who wouldn't happily pay any band who came forward. Though
>there are some, like Boulders and almost everything from Europe, who never
>did.

And WHO is now bilking the public with a BOULDERS/MOXIE tribute/rehash???


>Without a doubt, their albums are great (especially if all you ever want to
>hear is inept, drunken frat rock).<

Yeah yeah yeah... That's all we ever do, Greg. Cheap shots ain't shit
compared to action and quality.

>But this "we're better than all you
>other losers" stuff does get a bit tiresome.<

It must be for YOU as you repeatedly do a crappy job and keep your ass OPEN
for slaggings.

All this "up with people"/"everyone has a place" hippy crap you spew IS
underlined with the same hate I spew when someone calls YOUR game, ain't
it?


And one last quote from your old post:

>But nobody seems to get bent out of
>shape, because as Erik also mentioned, nobody is getting rich. The quoted
>sales figure of 3000 is unrealistic; most comps are limited editions of
>300, or 500, or 1000. I don't limit the editions on Pebbles but all the
>same, after 1000 it tends to drop off to almost nothing. Consider that the
>bands probably originally signed contracts for something like 2% royalties,
>if you go by today's standards and pay them 10%, and there's 25 bands on a
>CD, that works out to about 14 cents per band, or $140 for 1000 albums.

For ONCE Greg brings up a valid point: Yeah, there ISN'T a lotta $ to be
made in the comp world. BUT, THERE IS A BIG difference between cheap-shit
half-assery and QUALITY work, and for you, the producer of the LARGEST and
most defect/error-prone work, it is hardly YOUR place to even have anything
to say about anybody else and their work.

Yeah, yer the good guy with yer "garage newsgroup" buddy-system and $5 sale
prices and all (easy to offer when you lay out NOTHING in mastering &
artwork or liner note updates), and I'm the negative jerk - but I'm a
negative jerk with more class and scruples than you'll EVER have.


Tim




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